Official Everybody Edits Forums

Do you think I could just leave this part blank and it'd be okay? We're just going to replace the whole thing with a header image anyway, right?

You are not logged in.

#1 Re: Game Discussion » everybodyedits.com HTTP certificate expired » 2024-01-18 22:57:42

Zumza wrote:

Satanya claimed multiple times that there are no developers with less than 25+ years of experience (ex1 ex2), but the person charged with the PR, mutantdevle, when confronted with the reality that this would mean that the devs must be over 40 years old, changed the narrative to the one that there is only one experienced dev, with the rest being young. Moreover, mutantdevle claimed that we the community are responsible for this misconception. (chat 1 chat 2)

Your phrasing around these quotes is very disingenuous. As you can see from 'chat 2', I am very clearly not speaking with certainty.

As far as I know, my statement in 'chat 1' is correct. That is my understanding from the things that Satanya has told me (in a conversation more recent than her statements in those screenshots). It is possible that I am the one who is incorrect, but I do believe that Satanya was mistaken when you she made those comments in 'ex1' and 'ex2'. Neither of us dealt directly with the team of developers as that has always been Fixel's responsibility.

To clarify the confusion around Zoey's statement, I do not believe she has been told the reason that the Ukranian developers are no longer part of the team. The only people that know that are myself, Satanya, Fixel and Vice-T. Minimania might know too but I cannot remember if he was present when Fixel and Satanya shared the news with us.


Let me be clear, the only people 'active' in the community that are informed about what is going on behind the scenes is myself and Satanya. Any comments from anyone else are at most speculation.


I accept any and all criticism around the lack of development and communication, including things such as us not updating the HTTP certificate immediately (which I do not wish to comment on at this time). But I draw the line when you come up with conspiracies and accuse us of creating a 'narrative' around something as serious as the Ukraine war. I personally feel that you have crossed a line here and have become incredibly disrespectful, to the point that I am actually embarrassed that I thought of you as someone who was critcising/asking about the game in good faith.


When we get to the point that I am made to regret even answering one or two questions here and there from people who appear genuine, it just makes me not want to have any activity in the community at all. And it just further justifies my decision to convince Satanya to stop sharing updates about the game and tells me that I should be sticking more rigidly to that.

I was hoping that I wouldn't have to make another forum post about the game, but I felt it important to clarify a few of the things Zumza mentioned here.

#2 Re: Forum Discussion » How many users read the Everybody Edits Forums? » 2023-09-14 20:45:13

It's in my bookmarks, and it's just in my muscle memory to click on that little face with sunglasses whenever I open a new tab sometimes - especially if I'm just absentmindedly clicking while listening to something.

#3 Re: Forum Games » Assassination 2020 » 2023-02-13 18:20:28

Onjit wrote:

Just wanted to bump this to say that this forum game was one of my favourites, it was a lot of fun //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/cool

Aww thanks <3

I just wish I came up with the idea sooner. Can you imagine playing it back when the forums were truly active? This kinda just stagnated after the first month, albeit people were still trying to get kills. I hope there will come a time when I could host something like this again.

#4 Game Business » Everybody Edits || Our Silence » 2023-02-12 16:36:17

mutantdevle
Replies: 0

Happy new year everyone! It’s been almost a year since our last official update, so we’d like to share a little bit about why that is, and what our plans are for the future.


First, I’d like to clarify that Everybody Edits! has not been cancelled. Progress over the last year has been much, much slower, but we are hopeful to see an improvement in 2023.


More than 60% of all assets are finished - smileys, a portion of the accessories, quite a few tilesets & packs, some auras, etc. We’re excited to see audio play a significant role in EE!, but not much progress has been made there so far. But, slowly, we are making progress towards finalising everything.

Programming is close to being finished but has been halted for a while. The two Ukrainian developers we had left, who were mentioned in our previous update, are no longer working on the game. We do not wish to go into details about why because that is between them and their families. As mentioned last time, other members of our team either fled Ukraine at the start of the war or are living in Russia. Their situations have not changed, and they are understandably unable to return to working on the game.

At the moment, Fixel is our only available programmer, and we are therefore in need of new developers. While we appreciate that many members of the community are eager to help due to their experience with the game, we want to continue our business model of hiring freelance developers who can devote more time to programming and can keep up their work long-term.

A plan for game design has been in place since Satanya acquired Everybody Edits and has been discussed with many veterans of the game. The approach by previous ownership of talented individuals working in their spare time (with the line between programmer and game designer being a little blurred) is not compatible with how EE! has been developed so far or our intentions for its future. However, if we think there is anyone worth considering for a paid freelance position (in other roles too), we may contact some people privately.


So our main reason for our minimal updates is that we haven’t had much news to share, and most of the news has been bad news. However, you may also have noticed that individual members of the staff team have also been engaging with the community less frequently and that we have more generally been teasing less about the game's future. Unfortunately, the reason for this is primarily due to a small number of community members who have made an effort to harass both members of staff and other members of the community, or otherwise just make socialising with the community an exhausting experience.

The vast majority of the community has become inactive and is patiently waiting for updates such as this one - and we hope to see you join us and become more involved with the community again once the game is ready for release! Most of the remaining active community has been fun to engage with. It is always rewarding to see everyone’s interest in the game and excitement at small teases, such as details of a planned mechanic or progress on a graphic. However, the toxic minority has hurt our willingness to engage with the community as we know that each time we do, it often results in us, our colleagues, or community members, being attacked or trash-talked in spaces we have little to no control over.


So with that in mind, the main purpose of this update is that we’d like to officially announce that we do not intend to make any more of these update posts or engage much with the community until the game is ready to be marketed for release. While we are not mandating that our staff avoid the community, most of us have agreed that we want to take a step away - myself included. Those who do stick around have been asked not to discuss game progress with the community.

As part of this, we will no longer be making official posts on the forums, the EE! Twitter will become dormant, and the EE! Discord server has become read-only. Additionally, the Everybody Edits blog is officially coming to an end. Essentially, we want to create a gap of silence between now and when we’re ready to advertise the game. We intend that our next update post will be a gameplay trailer for the game. We do not anticipate giving any updates sooner than this for any reason other than the worst-case scenario of cancelling the game.

We have spoken about a timeframe for the game’s release internally; however, we do not have any dates that we wish to commit to publically. Therefore, do not expect any updates from us any time soon. It may be months or even years before we are ready.

While the EE! Discord has now been switched to read-only, joining the server and turning @everyone notifications on would be the best way to ensure you get our next update as soon as it’s ready, rather than checking in manually every few weeks or months. You can find the discord here: https://discord.gg/2kZYX6bFZq.


This was not an easy decision for us to make, but there are several reasons why we have chosen this direction. First of all, as mentioned, engaging with the community has often been exhausting for us. By taking this step back, we are hoping to regain any lost passion for the project. This will also allow us to give all our energy and focus to making progress towards the final product. Finally, while it has been traditional in the history of Everybody Edits for future updates to be teased and shared, the vast majority of the gaming industry does not share much outside of marketing. We believe that aligning with this will help convey the more professional tone we are striving to achieve with EE!.

We do plan to engage with the community again when we’re ready. We hope to see the forums, Discord and Twitter become wholesome places for the community to share their love and anticipation for the game again. But only when we’re ready to hype everyone up for the game's release. For now, we want to remain silent until what we have to say is worth saying, and we’d like to ask everybody who has a true love for the game to remain patient and respectful to us and to each other until then.


TL;DR: development is going to resume at a slow pace. The Discord has been set to read-only, and most staff will no longer be active within the community so that we can focus on the project.


Thank you for your support and continued patience,
-mutant.

#5 Re: Game Discussion » Discussion: Everybody Edits || Our Silence » 2023-02-12 15:52:58

N1KF wrote:

To make this clear, no, this isn't official. mutantdevle's and Minimania's posts on this thread have some of the most recent official statements on EE!'s situation.

I just wanted to emphasise this post. Kira is indeed trolling. Nothing has happened on the discord or anywhere else.

However, it is an interestingly timed troll post as we have been planning to make an update post today for a few weeks, so expect that soon. Only a handful of us knew that today was going to be an update day, so I'm doubtful that this date was leaked to Kira and it is genuinely just a coincidence.

#6 Re: Game Discussion » Where is Everybody Edits!? Part 6: 2011 Edition » 2022-12-23 13:10:55

N1KF wrote:
Kirby wrote:

agree, i've always been very sad that there's such a big gap in version history, there were so many 2011 specific bugs (and worlds from the period that abused them) that seem to be lost to time //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/sad

I FOUND THE CODE OF A LATE 2011 VERSION!!

Post by Tako (2011-12-21 or earlier), in topic New Command Found by Cyral
Download file

Finally. A happy ending //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/big_smile

#7 Game Discussion » Where is Everybody Edits!? Part 5 » 2022-12-21 14:07:15

mutantdevle
Replies: 7

HELP1!

We can't find Everybody Edits!! It was right here... we were working on it.. but now? It's gone!

Someone said they saw a green guy in a santa hat breaking into the safe we keep EE! in and that this villain ran away laughing.. but idk, the guy saying that was in a jester costume so i don't trust him.

Can anyone else help? //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/sad

#8 Re: Game Discussion » Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us. » 2022-12-10 18:18:33

The point of 'why bother buying the game if it's not going to be the same and you're not going to retain the community' is a valid one. In hindsight, just making a new game inspired by EE might have been a better financial decision. But I disagree that not making a significant effort to keep the current community hyped would be the worst financial decision ever. Holding the legal rights to the name 'Everybody Edits' connects it strongly to that history and brings name recognition. I'm certain there will be some people who'd check out the new game just because they remember playing the original EE at some point - whether they were social within the community or not. Creating something new would also have meant a period of time without any news. Except in our current circumstances, there WILL be people who check it out once they hear of it again whereas if the title was unrelated to EE the number of people who'd still be interested would be greatly decreased. We also don't want to just make a game inspired by EE, we do want it to be identifiable as an EE sequel. But to clarify my point, we aren't going to make decisions about the game's design just to cater to veterans of the game. So inevitably, there will be some who dislike some of the changes made in the final product.

N1KF wrote:

Maybe the harassment is happening on other platforms

It is. I'd consider this forum to be the most sensible and constructive place for conversations about EE.

Zumza wrote:

made our owners emotionally unwell.

I'd like to clarify that Satanya is not the only person who has worked on EE! whose mental health has been negatively affected. Behind the scenes, we've even have had people come and go. Even if people behind the scenes aren't actively a part of the community, they have still seen comments that people have made. That's a large part of why Satanya stopped leaking graphics as much. Seeing how part of the community behaves can be very demotivating and I do not blame anyone who has taken one look at how toxic we can be and decided they don't want to be a part of the project.

Zumza wrote:

ast time I posted on this forum, Kiraninja was writing about how "The Sun rises again". However, now I sense him bitter again.

Apparently he was trolling the whole time. When we're at a point where we can't even trust that the positivity is genuine you can understand why people want to spend time away or just not be involved at all.

Zumza wrote:

What happened to those Ukrainian developers? Are all of them working now?
If not, why do you still keep them?

No. Progress is being made where it can be and despite everything, last I heard, there is still some enthusiasm for the project. Everyone's job is open for them if/when they are able to come back. But you are right that it is best we hire more people.
However,

Zumza wrote:

you must set up an objective point where you should stop this project.

We have one. Ending the project and moving on is something that has been spoken about. Currently, there is a plan in place but if that plan fails then there's a chance it will mean giving up. So in answer to anyone reasoning why we don't hire more people: naturally we're not going to spend money if we're not 100% certain the project will continue. But if it is successful, then yes, hiring more people is absolutely what we're going to do. If the project does end, then we'll definitely update people on it and I will make sure that everywhere people might look for news about EE, such as on the blog, will contain that information. I'm sure people will have more questions such as what our current plan is, when we will make that decision by, or what happens afterwards, but I am not looking to answer those questions right now. In the meantime, no news is good news.

At this point, I don't think it's necessary to make any update posts or announcements unless we have something tangibly positive to announce. Progress updates, even when positive, just don't feel like they're tangible enough when we know it's just going to get the toxic people talking again. It just isn't worth it unless the rest of the community that we do appreciate actually gets something tangible out of it.



Zumza wrote:

I would also suggest letting Mutant in charge of all community PR, if he doesn't mind to,

Community manager is one of my roles on the team and I am more than happy to take on more of it. Previously, my contributions to that role has mostly been behind the scenes. Satanya really enjoys the idea of interacting with the community. Sharing small bits of information, teasing people with graphics and making update posts are all really fun things to do. But those experiences have been ruined for her by the need for some people to always be negative in unconstructive ways. Feedback has always been appreciated but the vast majority of 'criticism' has been malicious. So you can understand why she would want to step away from that. My only issue is that my job does keep me very busy. Could I spend more of my free time interacting with and planning things for the EE community? Yes. I definitely could. But, while the toxicity has never affected my mental health or made me lose faith in the project, I would be lying if I said that I had much enthusiasm or felt like I had much incentive to invest my time into doing that. Part of what keeps me mentally healthy is that I avoid engaging in meaningless negativity and part of me feels that I'd be forced to engage with it if I become more active again.

And then further to that, as I've mentioned earlier, I know that if I was more active then the toxicity won't exclusively be about me: today I have seen people trash-talking a member of the EE! team who isn't even involved in this thread, just because they were talking about this topic and felt like mocking someone I guess? I fully expected that to happen the moment I made my first post here. The only thing that surprises me is that it wasn't directed at Satanya for once. But idk if that makes it better or worse. I'm just grateful that that member of staff is unlikely to ever see those comments. The more active the EE! team is, the more we remind those sorts of people that EE! exists and therefore the more often they make those sorts of comments. I don't even think they're trying to be toxic. People have frustrations and that's their way of venting that. But my message to those people is that the EE! team sees more than you realise. I see almost everything and ignore it; I very rarely pass it on. But you are making those comments in public spaces. When you're talking about people, it often makes its way back to them eventually. Even if it's weeks later. It can often be worse when it's weeks later, because if there was plenty more people being positive, then by that time the positivity has died down and all that person is left with is the nasty thing you've said about them. So if you are the kind of person who feels the need to say nasty things to make yourself feel better, then all I ask is that you do it in your own private places, such as DMs with your friends. And please stop making it personal. Comments expressing disappointment that you don't believe the game will ever be released are fine. But when you start personally attacking and mocking individuals as a way of coping with that belief, that's when it becomes toxic - and that isn't healthy for you either.



All that being said, as we head into the Christmas Holidays I will have considerably more free time until the new year. So I would be interested to know, besides updates about the game, what would you want to see from us/me that you think will help keep you engaged whilst we wait? Because I am very much open to ideas. And if it does feel like people are genuinely interested in content that isn't just news, then that would certainly motivate me to get more involved. If you use Twitter, then the official Everybody Edits page should be a nice source of smiles and nose exhales from time to time: https://twitter.com/EverybodyEdits, but besides that and the people who are active in the discord server, there isn't really much going on right now.

#9 Re: Game Discussion » Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us. » 2022-12-09 20:07:02

I agree that the blog needs an official ending mentioning the cancellation of EEU and a link to where more information can be found. I agree that the discord should be linked more visibly on the forums and on the EE website itself. I also think we should make an update post on the forums that is informative and officially states that we do not feel like we owe any more updates to the community until we are ready to market the game. I will be sure to discuss all of those things with Satanya at some point. But while I am glad these points have been raised, for now, it is not a priority.



N1KF wrote:

and I suspect that any controversy from stating this fact has died out long ago.

The problem isn't that anything we do or say is controversial. It's that if we do or say anything, there is intense toxic scrutiny from a certain very vocal minority of the community. Any time we show the slightest bit of activity, if it isn't exactly what they want from us, then it's awful. I fully expect that even so much as updating the blog will face scrutiny from these people. I even expect that the things that Mini and I have said in this thread alone will be something I see jokes about in a few days/weeks.

N1KF wrote:

If these things are being done privately, cutting off all private communications from untrusted people may help.

This would be a sad and depressing way to live your virtual life. I don't think it's worth it to cut off the potential to make connections with new people, especially if you are someone who is involved with numerous communities, just because of a few toxic people.

Abiqi wrote:

Just remember that idiots make a small percentage of the whole community. Many people are still hyped up and actually waiting for you guys. More than sure even though they're silent, any kind of small detail you share actually excites them.
Keep up with the work, you've already put a lot of effort into the game.

It is appreciated to see and hear comments like this. But the problem is that the small percentage is loud and vile. Our community is not big enough for their negativity to be insignificant or drowned out.

Core wrote:

If the people involved in the creation of EE! were at the very least active once in a while and interacted with the community, even if it's just a couple of conversations about literally anything EE! or not EE!, it would at the very least create the illusion that the game is being worked on.

This is exactly what Satanya's approach to the discord has been for a while. She very much enjoys just chatting to the community about random stuff and teasing details every now and then. But again, certain people would always respond to that negatively because it is something other than a major update. There is also a notable portion of the community that has ridiculed the way that Satanya, and other active staff members in the discord, like to express themselves and have fun in conversation. These people aren't even necessarily toxic, but their comments alongside the usual toxicity just contribute to the feeling of unwantedness. It's just a shame that people feel the need to spoil other people's fun just because it's being had in a way that does not appeal to them.

Core wrote:

How can you guarantee that people will find EE! and enjoy it, when some of EEO's most dedicated players are turning their nose up at it?

There's never been a guarantee of anything. But we have the ability to finance marketing of the game properly which is likely to reach a new audience. I don't agree that just because veterans of EE are not interested in EE! does not mean that new people won't be. Our intention is that the quality of the game will speak for itself. And the quality of the game is not something that can be criticised yet because it does not exist - yet there are some veterans that express criticism of that anyway and it gets tiring to see.

And on the topic of veterans turning their noses up at EE!, I strongly believe that nostalgia is something that fuels a lot of the toxicity. People want EE back. But the only way you'll ever get EE back is if you can reverse time. The expectation is impossible. EE! is not going to be EE. It's going to be something new. Something that isn't stuck in nostalgia and instead uses the charm and concept of EE to entice the hearts of new people. New people who will create new memories and new things to eventually become nostalgic about. All within a modern and ethical video game landscape. We want as many people to join us on that journey as possible. But we're not going to force people to join us or do anything that makes the journey overall less enjoyable. Undoubtedly, there will definitely be some who enjoy EEO more than EE!. And that's okay.

N1KF wrote:

The staff team is large enough that it should either have somebody, or connections with somebody involved unaffected by the trauma who can help communicate basic messages.

I guess that would be me. I don't have any personal trauma with the community, I've just seen how it affects others. And I'm quite good at taking criticism and ignoring toxicity in every aspect of my life so I don't expect anything that anyone says in the community to affect me seriously. But my issue is that I simply don't have the time. EE! is still a passion project for everyone involved and I have a job that keeps me very busy. I suppose I would have the time to make an update post every month, but most of those posts would either just be "nothing significant to report" or bad news, with most of the good news being that the bad news is over, repeated in a cycle - and repeated bad news would 100% make things worse. So instead, I'd need to do something creative each month for the updates to be meaningful. And as Mini has explained, being creative when it doesn't feel like it's being appreciated is exhausting. I've definitely burnt out on projects before because the target audience didn't feel large enough. Besides, I know that even if I - or anyone else - was the one posting updates, a large part of the most toxic criticism and harassment would still make its way back to Satanya simply because she is the one seen as in charge.

Abiqi wrote:

If EE's blog gets a rework, it's highly likely it'll be a success again. Blogging is still highly popular after all

I'd also like to see something like the blog return. It'd likely be a new blog though rather than a continuation of the old one. And I wouldn't want to see it return until the game was released.

Tomahawk wrote:

The implication is there will be less toxicity within a fresh new playerbase once EE! is released. Is that likely?

Well, getting rid of jaded doomers will definitely help, but if EE! becomes popular, you can't fight the statistics: more voices = more negative comments. I see the necessity of shielding staff from abuse and prioritising development over PR at this stage, but I think game staff will need to grow thicker skins if they're in it for the long run.

Perhaps positive feedback (and positive cashflow) will balance out unconstructive criticism after release. Or perhaps this is the internet and you just gotta strap in and tough it out or otherwise ban everyone who offends you.

The problem isn't that there's negativity. That's to be expected. As you say, this is the internet and toxicity will always be here. But the key issue is that the ratio of positivity to toxicity is too large in the current community. The negative voices are too loud right now. EE's past has been problematic and a breeding ground for toxicity. We are still feeling the effects of that. If our community was to grow, it would be with new people who don't share that trauma. The number of positive voices joining will easily overpower the new negative ones. In a community as small as ours, the toxic minority does not FEEL like a minority, despite how much we can remind ourselves that they are. But with a larger community, it will be much easier to feel like the negativity comes from a minority when there is so much more positivity to drown it out.



EDIT: Kira's post exemplifies many of the points I have made here. Besides this edit acknowledging it, I would encourage everyone in this thread to ignore it and not respond because it adds nothing of value to this discussion.

#10 Re: Game Discussion » Why the EE development is communicated poorly, and how it hurts us. » 2022-12-08 21:45:46

When Satanya became director of the game and asked me to be both the head moderator and a community manager for EE! I was effectively given 2 questions:

1: How will we keep the community engaged while they wait for the game's release?
2: How can we reduce toxicity within the community?

Our answer to the 2nd question was to ensure that the discord server was strictly moderated and to have these same stricter values when designing the EE! moderation system. I was never actively involved with the discord server, but I believe that the staff there have done a very good job of keeping toxicity out, with a few hiccups along the way. Even if a significant number of the old community look down on that server as somewhere too cringey and full of noobs to be taken seriously. Meanwhile, the concept and documentation for the EE! moderation system has been finished (pending tweaks) for a while now and I think it will do a good job of being harsh on those who intentionally cause trouble while offering chances for those who are less malicious but still rulebreaking to make positive changes. 

For the first question, we had many discussions in the GGRiD discord server where various members of the team suggested different ideas. Our initial approach was to try and have some kind of community engagement every single month. Whether that be a simple update post or something the community could actually contribute towards. We had staff updates, opportunities to provide feedback, staff interviews and the logo competition. We had lots more planned too - more competitions were discussed, staff interviews were initially going to be a regular segment, we wanted to share in-progress graphics in a more structured and frequent way. I've personally been sitting on a document containing applications to help beta read the moderation document for half a year.

That approach was exhausting because the creativity and time necessary to keep that up regularly was not doable at such an early stage in the project. But more importantly, it seemed that everything we did was just a beacon for toxicity. Whilst there was plenty of positivity that was appreciated, the amount of unconstructive negativity was not insignificant. And over the months that took its toll. It affected the mental health of many staff behind the scenes, in a few cases to a significant extent. And it didn't seem to matter if we could keep toxicity out of certain places because those sorts of people would always find a place to laugh about it together. Some of the things I've read that people have said have been absolutely vile. Those kinds of comments always found their way back to the team in one way or another. I'm generally of the mind that we should focus on the positives and ignore the negatives when they're not contributing anything useful - but that's easy for me to say when I'm not the one whose work is being hyperbolically scrutinised or am not the one being personally attacked.

Another idea to combat toxicity that was suggested in those initial discussions was to just starve the toxicity with a lack of anything to be toxic about. We didn't want to do this because that would involve sharing less and less which of course would also starve the people we would like to keep around of anything to get excited about. The counterargument to that was that we didn't need to retain the current community because we could just grow a new one once the game is released. Tbh, it was probably me who originally said that but I don't fully remember. But ultimately, we all knew that wasn't the way to go because, naturally, we'd want all our friends from EE to stay with us on our journey. However, it seemed that the less we shared with the community the happier we were. I remember dreading every time we were about to share something because I knew that it meant I'd need to spend a few hours each day following it trying to reassure the mental health of staff members and the concerns of the community - and at times it could be difficult to tell the difference between genuine community concerns and people just trying to be toxic. If I had to do that as consistently as was originally planned then I'd have quit this project long ago. And I know that Satanya feels the same way.

Overall, it became clearer and clearer to us that just not posting updates was healthier for us. We have now fully committed to the strategy of not even trying to retain the current community and to instead just grow a new one when EE! is released. It has even reached the point where I have been encouraging Satanya to take a break from the community and not share any news about the game for a while. I am currently of the belief that we shouldn't post any news at all until the game is ready for marketing. Whether Satanya does decide to share anything though is down to her; she likes to share details, show off graphics and tease plans for the future. It just becomes draining when people latch onto tiny details and criticise everything about it without offering anything constructive. The community just isn't big enough to drown out the people like that or balance it out with positivity. If everyone was as genuinely enthusiastic as N1KF is about the small stuff then we wouldn't have this problem. But it seems that for too many people, if the news isn't something big then they'll have something negative to say about it. And seeing that over and over again just isn't healthy.



I feel your pain. I want people to stick around too. We have already lost so many good people already who haven't stuck around through EE's turbulent times. To lose any more would be a huge shame. I've heard lots of stories of fun people I never got to meet because I didn't become socially active in EE until its later years. But ultimately, we have reached a point where it's no longer healthy for us to try and put the time, creativity and emotions into trying to keep those people. We've come to the conclusion that it's not our responsibility to try to keep those people - despite how much it feels like it should be and how much we'd ideally want it to be. And just coming to that conclusion gives me the clarity that trying to do things because we miss our old friends and wish they'd come back doesn't sound too healthy either. Right now, the harsh truth is that we do just want people to forget about EE! for a while. And if you don't want to do that, then all we ask is that you be patient, don't be toxic, and accept that we aren't trying to keep you entertained so you shouldn't expect that from us anymore.

But when EE! is eventually released, our hope is that people remember again and our old friends do come back - even if it takes them a few years. But if not, then EE! will be the perfect place for making new friends and new memories. Of course, it will be sad that not all of our old friends would join us. But I still like to think that everyone who has ever enjoyed EE is out there somewhere making new friends of their own.

#11 Re: Forum Games » Pass the pumpkin » 2022-10-31 19:58:44

2b55b5g wrote:

i killed the pumpkin

The pumpkin has passed on

#12 Re: Game Discussion » What are people playing these days? » 2022-10-06 18:43:05

I'm mostly playing real life.

But when I'm not playing real life, I'm probably programming/testing characters for a Minecraft mod.

#13 Re: Forum Games » Kill The Monster » 2022-10-01 17:56:39

Minimania wrote:

since he's now paralyzed, I'm gonna dig a ditch around him so that if he ever gets to move again, he'll fall in

The ditch is successfully dug.

Edilights wrote:

I use a self-destruction bomb with 100% guaranteed explosion on Krax. It explodes inside of mr. Krax.

As this is a 'self-destruction' bomb, you must first place it inside the Krax. You are so confident that your bomb will work that you forget about Mini's ditch. You fall in the ditch and the bomb detonates, killing you instantly. Some shrapnel from the bomb does hit the Krax, but it is deflected off of its armour. The ditch is also damaged.

KyYay wrote:

I use a TensionGem to gain 50% TP, then realize I need to wait until next turn to actually do anything with it

Your 'TP' is successfully increased //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/smile

Sticksam wrote:

Vote Mr. Krax to death for "venting" his frustration by smacking another Krax into the pool of lava, all because he 'misclicked' and lost his diamonds.
Then, he will be dropped into the lava pit, killing Mr. Krax instantly.

Your vote achieves nothing. You push the Krax into the 'lava pit', but it turns out that the lava pit was just an empty ditch...

AllenCaspe9510 wrote:

I'll keep holding tight I guess xd

The Krax continues to be paralysed.

HydraK90 wrote:

so let's get like four huge fans to cool them down

You set up 4 huge fans to blow on the Krax. They don't seem to have any effect.

Sticksam wrote:

Well in that case, we'll wrap the chains around them, use our freeze rays to immobilize them, and then send them into the giant pool of acid using a magic card that says "Acid Pool of Doom V1.2", where the acid will slowly kill Krax, thus Krax will perish. To activate the card, we just simply slap the card anywhere on Krax, even if he's entrapped in a ice cube. You just tap the card on the ice, and that's it.

No matter what Krax does, they won't be able to escape, even if the ice breaks, or the chains become loose, because there will be giant electric walls surrounding the pool, which are impossible to climb on to.

You wrap chains around the Krax and successfully freeze it in a block of ice. Your magic card begins to fill the ditch with acid, but there is only enough to fill the ditch with a couple of centimetres. The ice is protecting the Krax from direct contact with the acid, but it is clear that the ice is beginning to dissolve. Finally, you successfully build an electric fence around the ditch.

HydraK90 wrote:

Can we set up like, 10 trebuchets?
Catapults? Anything? Like, some kind of blunt medieval weapon..

You manage to find and set up 8 trebuchets and 2 catapults. Hopefully, they will be useful in the future.

theoldinese wrote:

i slap the monster

You go to slap the monster but find that you cannot get past the electric fence. You decide not to slap the electric fence.

HydraK90 wrote:

flex tape can't fix that

It's true, flex tape has no healing qualities for organic beings.

Edilights wrote:

Whelp, this is going to be chaotic in this game. At least we can do some damage to the monster.

This statement is ironic, considering no damage was successfully inflicted against the monster this round. Thankfully, nobody heard your statement because you are dead.

some woman wrote:

i question the purpose of this senseless violence and suggest an ulterior motive to the monsters attacking the users of this thread, if one even existed. while doing so i trip and take 1 damage.

After taking 1 damage from tripping, you further reflect that perhaps the devil god who is responsible for the progression of time in this universe would never have reappeared had you not spoken. And therefore, you are responsible for condonement of the violent actions taken this turn. The guilt of this causes you to take a further 1 emotional damage. However, you quickly get over your guilt when you realise that no one managed to actually damage the Krax this turn.


Krax Health: 46/60

#14 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-22 00:20:28

Era wrote:

mutntdevle: fwiw, as I had never played mafia before investigating you wasn't really a play on your previous behaviour, but rather that I sinply though your line of "I'll make sure you don't regret keeping me alive or so" was kind of suspicious //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/big_smile

orherwise didn't really know whom to investigat, kind of funny that I was so effective in my investigations this game.

That’s what made it worse! I couldn’t even wholeheartedly make the argument that you were scum wanting to get rid of me as soon as possible because it was sooo obvious that you were new to the game. Literally the only thing that nearly kept me alive was the flagbearer and sentinel claims because there was literally no logical argument we could make against it 😢


Also, if I were to host a game there’d definitely be very little if any flavour. Not that I could live up to Mini’s efforts anyway //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/tongue

#15 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-21 19:00:40

Minimania wrote:

I was too worried about the power of the Oppressor, I overcompensated in favor of town.

I think the main flaw with this approach is that we didn't have a night kill. Even if I could use my ability on day 2, the lack of a goon meant that overall we were less powerful than the classic 3 vanilla mafia members with 1 night kill between them. I think at the very least we needed an investigative ability to gather information and potentially influence our oppressor pools. Besides that, we just got unlucky that I was the one who was given the important role. Almost anyone else in my position would have lived much longer.

Minimania wrote:

I feel Semi-open setups are king. The benefit of making the game a little more mysterious, allowing for speculation (like the speculation around there possibly being a Voodoo or an Arsonist) cannot be understated.

I agree. Semi-open is definitely my favourite type of setup. Too closed means that players are just guessing in the dark about what's going on and completely open means that people have to work within very specific rules. Though, I think you were a little too restrictive with the roles that were on offer in this semi-open setup. The *only* option I had was to accuse Era of lying because there were literally 0 roles which could have possibly messed with his investigation results. There is absolutely 0 logic to someone randomly falsely accusing someone like that, so it was always an impossible sell. The town actually having a sentinel was just the nail in the coffin. Even if you didn't have a role capable of redirecting people or falsifying investigation results, by explicitly confirming no such roles exist it severely limited our options.

Additionally, you had too few roles for mafia. Mafia needed a lot more 'possible' roles that were variants of town roles. Almost all of the town could 100% prove they are town just by proving their night abilities are real. Each time those town roles would claim, the only thing that stops them from being confirmed as town is if someone counterclaims. All that achieves is a 50% chance of killing the actual town role first but inevitably sacrificing the false counter-claimer in the process. The neutral roles will never sacrifice themselves like that and the mafia don't have enough members to keep doing that either. So the number of confirmed town players would just keep increasing until the game could be solved through process of elimination. Ironically, the only way for the scum factions to counter that would be if they were able to collectively kill more people per night. The only way the town would ever have lost this game is if nobody ever claimed.

That said, I did have a lot of fun playing. Fighting for your life immediately is much more thrilling, and of all the ways to lose, I'm 100% glad it wasn't through a slow and drawn-out process of elimination. Norwee is also a very worthy opponent and it is genuinely impressive how much influence they had over the situation despite effectively not being able to vote. It was also really nice to play with a whole bunch of new people who take the game seriously but not so seriously that it stops being fun

Norwee wrote:

If Mutant is scum then this marks the second game where they as scum say: "I’m going to post less due to busy but dw i’ll still get in the walls y’all know and love wink wink //ee.failforums.me/img/smilies/wink))kr"

I have to say that this comment did bother me a little. I didn't say anything during the game because there was no way of addressing it without people analysing it. I get that you said it as part of your building a case to have me lynched but I would NEVER use irl circumstances as a tool for manipulation and no self-respecting player of mafia would either. I planned on opening the game with that statement regardless of my alignment. Although I tend to enjoy playing as mafia more than town, I was hoping to have a chill game and I was very uncomfortable with just how active I was forced to be in this game. I would have been much less active if it wasn't for the amount of pressure I felt to keep fighting knowing that the consequences of if I didn't was letting my entire team down who literally lost the game if I died.

There was definitely ups and downs for me this game in terms of the ways in which I was and was not enjoying it. I might scuttle off back into retirement because this game has made me realise that it's unfair for me to keep playing whilst not wanting to put as much effort in - the hand you are dealt in terms of what role card you get and what actions other people take is uncaring towards such a desire. So I'm not certain that playing mafia works for me anymore. That said, it has reawakened in me my passion for setup design and hosting. But idk if there's a market for that or if this game was just a one-off - I guess it entirely depends on if the new people decide to stick around. Though, the few ideas I've had are flexible in terms of how many people can join so if I were to host a game there'd be no real player count requirement. Regardless, I'd have to consider even that as, although hosting is less pressure in some ways, it is definitely more pressure in others too.

#16 Re: Game Discussion » The Sun rises again » 2022-07-19 11:33:51

Era wrote:

I am a bit confused on the acusations of toxicity. After the ammount of disapointment the EE community has had I expect a certain ammount of reservation.
But this simply isnt beeing toxic or not respectfull.

Reservation is fully expected. We are actively aware of the reputation that was gained for EE development and we have worked very hard to both show we are not like that and also actually not make the same mistakes. As others have pointed out, our lack of announcements of plans and not showing things off just to build false hype is part of that process.

But the way that people express themselves is what treads the line between toxic and respectful. The way that Norwee has expressed their reservations in this thread is 100% respectful. On the other hand, by Zumza's own admission they've not actually asked any serious questions. So if they are not trying to genuinely understand the situation, it makes me wonder what their motivation is. Because right now it feels to me like it's just to throw sass, spread negativity, and make accusations based on assumptions. I don't think that Zumza has been actively toxic yet, but I'd not describe their conduct as respectful. That's why I have felt the need to address their comments because behaving disrespectfully can easily lead to toxicity.

In a similar way, there has been a contrast in the way that people have given feedback on some of the graphics we shared last year. Sometimes people would express a dislike for something and suggest improvements and we have made some changes to the things we've shown off based on those comments. But on the other hand, there were some users who were negative about absolutely everything we'd show. Without fail, every time, they would have something negative to say. I've even seen them completely ridiculing some of the stuff we'd shown in other EE discord servers. They'd never have something productive to say, just that what we had made was bad and sometimes those comments would even cross the line to make comments about the artist who had made them. The latter approach was completely toxic. Those sorts of players are largely no longer active in the community, either because they got bored and moved on, gotten banned for something they did later, or because they've stopped being toxic.

Era wrote:

I also wanted to add that adding a punctuation mark to a game name is not that nice, nobody will assume it is part of the name when reading it.

The exclamation mark right now is simply an easy way of signalling which version of the game people are talking about. When EE! becomes the dominant form of EE, the exclamation mark will likely no longer be necessary. The exclamation mark has actually always featured in EE's globe logo.


Our efforts to reduce toxicity in the community is exactly why Kiraninja's topic is so nice to see. As they have mentioned, Kiraninja had a reputation for being incredibly negative about previous versions of the game. Lots of people had their reservations but Kiraninja was one of the first to express them and they'd express them very vocally. The previous administration definitely generated toxicity - after all, if the person in charge is not respectful to others then why should there be any expectation that the community itself should be respectful? The endless drama either exhausted you to the point of leaving or you'd stick around long enough to join in with the toxicity. So this thread is really nice to see as reassurance that we are successfully repairing the damage done to the community and creating a more positive culture, as well as being able to see that community members can recover from that state of exhaustion/toxicity.

Zumza wrote:

It seems that you're alluding to me. A staff member insinuating that I am toxic or a jerk, is an absolute first.

I assure you that it is not directed at you specifically. There has been a lot of toxicity in the EE! discord over the past 2 years, which is what Satanya is alluding to. I'd like to think we've done a very good job of eliminating that toxicity because the discord server has since become a nicer place due to people either leaving, getting themselves banned, or changing their ways. But the way those toxic people would speak is very similar to the way you have expressed yourself in this thread - automatically assuming the worst and throwing around accusations based on those assumptions. Given the past administration, it is understandable that people will assume the worst. But that does not give them a free pass on being a jerk. If your questions are not genuine, and you have no real desire to understand the situation, then I do worry that you are headed down that path of being toxic.

#17 Re: Game Discussion » The Sun rises again » 2022-07-18 22:36:28

Zumza wrote:

One of the issues with EEU, might I remind the readers, was that the developers, surprisingly, weren't truly motivated with receiving just the amount of coins needed to wash their cloths in which they were sweating in while coding, as remuneration.

The EE! developers are being paid professionally. It isn't free hobbyist labour with the occasional minor payout like EEU was. Money is being invested into the game before it makes a profit.

Zumza wrote:

50-100 pages? What is it 50 or 100? Is it 75?

It started out at around 60 but has since expanded to around 100. The specific numbers are kinda irrelevant. Satanya's point was that there is a plan and it is a detailed one.

I fully support Norwee's perspective. While some people are naturally excited by the things we have said, it is entirely reasonable to be sceptical and withhold any excitement until we start showing off the game more (which as I say, more than likely won't happen until closer to release). I definitely would not be as excited as I am about EE! if I was not in the privileged position of knowing the behind-the-scenes progress. However, I do not support deliberate attempts to ruin other people's excitement, which is seemingly what you are trying to do in this thread Zumza. Although we don't intend on making big announcements about plans throughout most of the development process, we have always welcomed questions. Satanya is very active in answering a whole range of questions in the EE! discord, which N1KF helpfully documents in her hints and leaks thread. But right now, the way that you are asking your questions is not what I would consider respectful.

#18 Re: Game Discussion » The Sun rises again » 2022-07-18 20:45:28

Just because the monetisation is a low priority does not mean we don't have a plan for it. We also have very clear plans for both the development of the game and building a player base.

We do not like to share our plans often because they are very subjective to change and conditional on things going perfectly. All we'd be achieving otherwise is spreading misinformation about the final product because there is no way that everyone would be able to keep up with every bit of news.

Retaining the player base across the development time would have been a monumental task that would never have been successful. We'll hype people up when the game is near release and no sooner. For now, all we ask from the community is to be patient and respectful. Keeping people engaged with the community is not something we consider necessary at this time because we have full faith in the final product to speak for itself and draw players back in once it's ready. In the meantime, sticking around in the community is everyone's personal choice. But if the people that choose to stick around cannot be patient and respectful, then to be blunt, we don't want them sticking around.

In terms of development news, we are not simply waiting for the war to end to continue development. Progress is currently still being made but definitely at a slower rate than before the war started. Besides addressing hugely significant things such as the war, which not only severely limited development for a while but has also had a significantly irreversible emotional impact on much of our team, we do not plan to make posts every time development changes speed.

#19 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 21:55:15

ZeldaXD wrote:

then we're basically losing two days

The mafia isn't our only threat. There is guaranteed at least 1 third party that poses a genuine threat to us. Any days spent not resolving this situation (aka, just tomorrow) can be spent looking for the pestilence.

#20 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 21:51:27

Era wrote:

And honestly your claim that I just randomly picked a flagbearer for the town is fairly ridicilous.

I've never said that you picked me because you either thought/or knew I was a flagbearer. This is 100% a coincidence that's turned out in your favour.

#21 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 21:50:12

We can just lynch Onjit or Althea instead, neither of them are claiming to be important roles.

#22 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 21:49:19

2B55B5G TNG wrote:

!vote Mutant

Your constant vote switching isn't what I find sus about you, it's the fact that you don't seem to care about the possibility that this could end the game for you. Not once have you ever mentioned any fear over that possibility to the point where it kinda feels like that doesn't matter to you.

#23 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 21:44:51

I find it so incredibly hard to believe that we ever make it to day 4 without

A) One of us 4 dying.

B) Us gaining any other kind of information that can prove who is town.

#24 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 18:56:41

I'm gonna repeat myself here but this is yet another reminder that this entire situation is immediately resolved as soon as any of myself, era, onjit or althea dies. Anyone who thinks that a flagbearer claim is worth risking is inherently anti-town.

You're right, in the hypothetical where I am a mafia flagbearer, I'd 100% not put myself in the voting pool tomorrow. But that literally changes nothing. You'd just lynch me day 4 instead and althea day 5 - if someone hasn't night killed us already.

This whole idea of "we need to do this lynch now or by the time we lynch him it will be too late" is completely ludicrous.

#25 Re: Forum Games » Mafia 51 - Secret Weapon [TOWN + GLADIATOR + SURVIVOR WIN!!!] » 2022-07-14 11:44:37

mutantdevle wrote:
Norwee wrote:

AND he is bulletproof.

It is the most basic level of kill protection. There are literally so many roles in the game that can bypass it.

Just to further emphasise my point here, I had a look through the roles and literally the only killing roles that can't touch me are the Serial Killer and the Goon. Every single other killing role would go straight through my protection.

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB

[ Started around 1708906553.5653 - Generated in 0.475 seconds, 10 queries executed - Memory usage: 1.96 MiB (Peak: 2.38 MiB) ]