The woots system is broken

Processor · Before February 2015

I believe the woots system is broken, here's why:

Lets say you are deciding whether you should woot the level or not, if you like the level more than 50% you woot it up. If not, you won't. This leaves no difference between the levels that people think they are 50% good and others that are thought to be 95% good. Now it's just about getting a higher quantity of people to join your level and woot it up. Guest bomb your 55% good level and you'll soon have much more woots than much better maps that are out there. What about the people who do not think your level is good? Their voice is not heard.

It's about how many people join your world not how good it is.

The woots system doesn't do what it has to, which is to get people play good levels.

The user Memylo once created a system called redefined, where he had a list of worlds that did not simply disappear and lose their votes once the room got empty. He did work on it before the woots system was released but due to his lack of interest, the project got abandoned soon after its release.

Sure, the top level is going to get the most views and stay on the top, but with the addition of a "Raising" list that contains levels that are pretty new but have a few up votes, new levels have a chance of getting popular.

You must still remember that the task of the lobby is more to get players enjoy the game by playing fun levels, than to get the level owners fight for the most woots. Right now, it feels like the task of the lobby is to let some pretty boring levels get to the top of the lobby for a really short period of time by making the level owners "cheat" and get extra fake guests in their level.

If some newbie should be going to keep playing the game for more than a few days, there should be a system where the quality of the levels is the top priority. A down vote would never hurt, EE is not a social site like Facebook. Do you see a highscores board with posts that have most likes on Facebook? Nope.
This is the case in EE, woots are not given to make the owner like you, but to make the level get more popular because you believe the level is worth playing. (Sure it might make the owner like you, but that's not their task) Having a down vote works fine on YouTube. Comparing up/down votes almost always tells you about the quality of the video. This is the goal of woots too, no?

EE would not need a rating system which allows you to give a precise rating form 1 to 999999, but only a simple down vote option would make the system be much much more precise. Allowing levels to stay on the lobby while they are not played would also drastically improve the user experience. Not everyone knows where to find good levels.

And now: Discuss, people!

Last edited by Processor (Jan 25 2013 4:31:18 pm)

Different55 · Before February 2015

There is truth in this thread.

capasha · Before February 2015

The woot is so useless so I woot random worlds I'm inside.

HappyKat · Before February 2015

Though I completely agree with what you are saying, I still must counter argue.

How do you define "Fun"? How can you say that levels in the lobby are boring, how can you speak on behalf of everyone?

Though this truth is sad, it is the truth. Because of the increased amount of "bad" levels in the lobby, it seems that newbie players seem to think that "bad" is fun, and I mean come on most people here can probably admit to thinking the same thing when they were a newbie.

I mean in all honesty, when I first started playing the game three years ago I thought sprite art was the bomb. I thought, the more the better, and for smiley art, the more realistic the more pro it was. This was three years ago. It has taken me three years to see the light, accept that I wrong in a sense, change, and then attempt to make levels that are "good" in the sense of most "pro" players.

However no one can really define good or bad when it comes to a level in the lobby, because really who are you to say what is better than something else?

Obviously my reasoning is probably a bit flawed in some ways, but yet that is how most people will think when you bring up this topic. How can you say the woots system is bad? I've benefited from it myself a couple of times, because it has helped to keep my level "popular" and in the lobby for people to play.

Sure I think there should be a way to downwoot, like with youtube videos how you can rate what is good and what is bad, but I doubt MrShoe would ever add such a thing. Such a system would allow players to virtually troll the woots because then they could enter a level 5 times and downwoot it, and then continue to do so with multiple alts (heck I'd probably do that just for the lulz)

The best solution for woots, is no woots at all. It's a flawed and corrupt system that does nothing but give people self gratification for something that will never even matter.

Vyvo · Before February 2015

I totally agree with you processor, except for the downvote which can cause downfall to peoples level unfairly. In my opinion it would be the best if the whole wootsystem would be erased.

Mosts woots are given by players to levels they only can play. When they encounter levels they cant beat they wont woot (in ur system only downvote).
Lets say there is 1 pro level, very great art, very good mini's. But since it requires some skill, people wont or downvote the level since lets say 80% can't beat the level.. That would be a waste of the level, pro's dont want to make pro levels anymore, byebye creativity (I exaggerated a bit)...

Long story short; either way, upvoting or downvoting, both can be abused easily or be in an unfair perspective. Remove Woots.
EDIT: Thanks for nice discussionfood.

Last edited by Vyvo (Jan 25 2013 4:59:15 pm)

Different55 · Before February 2015

Except that it won't be removed. The best option is to try to fix it and that means adding unwoots or downwoots or antiwoots or whatever.

Processor · Before February 2015

People do not think that the levels that are "bad" are fun. As they see only them on top of the lobby, they will never discover any better levels. If they are going to build a new level, they will build the same stairs they just saw.
If they always saw original and good levels on top of the lobby, they would also try make original ones. If they see their stairs level fail to get enough woots but the adventure map on top of the lobby does, they are going to try to make a good level too. Some will fail, but those who succeed, will join the community and play for a very long time. More and more good levels are made and newbies get to like the game more.

Last edited by Processor (Jan 25 2013 5:02:35 pm)

Vyvo · Before February 2015

Maybe the possibility to turn off woots in a level if you encounter too much unfair downvotes?

Processor · Before February 2015

I wouldn't think it would cause problems, because of the very big user base and the simple ways to get your level on top of the lobby. Woots could be limited to one ip, if it gets abused too much...

Persona · Before February 2015

Honestly, eliminating the WOOT system would be beneficial, I just don't see MR.Sh0e getting rid of it. He understands the hate, which is why he practically ignores this community. I like the way EE is going honestly, I just believe the whole EE Builders Club, and Woots just ruin it. I always wanted spikes and check points, along with all the cool new smileys. It just feels like the game is expanding. The only people who hate this new 'RPG' style of game this game is picking up are the people who do not like change. This game is getting much better with all the new traps.

Of course, this is going to spew out updates that players get sick of, cool. I wouldn't be suprised if he removes the fan forum link from the ee blog. Really, it is just full of people who are one-minded. Not saying all the haters are one-minded. (Or "closed minded")

Anyways, It seems even when I was banned for a month, that nothing did change about this community. I also won't deny that EE is going dead. Just look at that player count.

Anyways, back to the whole 'EE is going in a bad direction"..

The fact you dislike the whole updates make me question 2 things:

1) Why are you complaining? Just play some levels you admire.
2) If other people like the packages, simply let them get them.. You don't have to spend a dime or waste time to get them.

Clearly, no one has obtained any more smarts while I was away. Not saying ANYONE here is dumb, just saying no one grew, or changed.. I was hoping there was some new movement on the forum where discussion here was actually moved to something anyone new would benefit for.

As MrSh0e said:

So, the method everyone here is trying will not work. Instead of being a witch, just send an email with concerns with out attacking the poor man.

Are you not smart enough to? Here is what I wrote:

Oh, and it seems he actually listened to me..

TL:DR; You shouldn't be complaining, but if you really need to, attacking him ins't going to help.

Last edited by Persona (Jan 26 2013 6:09:39 pm)

rocktheworld313 · Before February 2015

I don't hate MrSh0e, you just kind of pick it up from all the hate going around.

So I guess I do hate MrSh0e.

gregregreg · Before February 2015

If we do happen to have -Woots, then limit it to either 1 or 2 of them, with 5 being for the +Woots.

That's all I have to really say.

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